Knock going in reverse ?

[WikdTSi]

I was trying to see what was going on today using the logger.

Doing a 3k to 7k pull I found the knock actually went DOWN the higher the RPM's?

Start with prob 8-12 counts and really starts to drop around 5k to maybe 5-6 and by 6200+ I have no more knock.

Hmm After a hair more tuning this morning, I think I am a Wee bit lean on the lower side perhaps ;)

.88 -.90 02's :eek

Time,RPM,Knock,Timing,O2,Inj P/W,TPS,Inj D/C
00:03.00,1781.0,0.0,18.0,0.9,6.666,90.0,10.0
00:03.14,1844.0,0.0,19.0,0.9,6.666,90.0,10.0
00:03.26,1875.0,0.0,19.0,0.9,6.666,90.0,10.0
00:03.38,1906.0,8.0,16.0,0.9,6.666,91.0,11.0
00:03.50,1938.0,7.0,17.0,0.88,6.666,91.0,11.0
00:03.61,2000.0,7.0,17.0,0.88,6.923,91.0,12.0
00:03.76,2031.0,7.0,17.0,0.88,6.923,91.0,12.0
00:03.88,2063.0,7.0,18.0,0.88,6.923,91.0,12.0
00:04.01,2063.0,6.0,19.0,0.88,7.179,91.0,12.0
00:04.13,2125.0,6.0,19.0,0.88,7.179,91.0,13.0
00:04.26,2188.0,6.0,19.0,0.88,7.179,91.0,13.0
00:04.38,2219.0,6.0,20.0,0.88,7.436,91.0,14.0
00:04.52,2250.0,6.0,19.0,0.88,7.436,91.0,14.0
00:04.65,2313.0,5.0,20.0,0.9,7.692,91.0,15.0
00:04.77,2344.0,5.0,20.0,0.88,7.948,91.0,16.0
00:04.90,2406.0,5.0,20.0,0.9,7.948,91.0,16.0
00:05.03,2438.0,5.0,19.0,0.88,8.205,91.0,17.0
00:05.15,2500.0,5.0,20.0,0.88,8.205,91.0,17.0
00:05.28,2531.0,4.0,20.0,0.88,8.461,91.0,18.0
00:05.42,2625.0,4.0,20.0,0.88,8.461,91.0,19.0
00:05.55,2656.0,4.0,18.0,0.88,8.718,91.0,19.0
00:05.69,2719.0,4.0,18.0,0.88,8.974,91.0,20.0
00:05.82,2781.0,3.0,18.0,0.88,9.487,91.0,22.0
00:05.96,2844.0,3.0,17.0,0.88,10.0,91.0,24.0
00:06.09,2875.0,3.0,15.0,0.88,10.769,91.0,26.0
00:06.23,2938.0,3.0,14.0,0.9,11.538,91.0,28.0
00:06.36,3031.0,3.0,13.0,0.9,12.564,91.0,32.0
00:06.51,3094.0,2.0,12.0,0.9,13.846,91.0,36.0
00:06.65,3188.0,6.0,11.0,0.9,14.358,91.0,38.0
00:06.79,3250.0,6.0,10.0,0.92,15.384,91.0,42.0
00:06.94,3344.0,6.0,9.0,0.92,15.384,91.0,43.0
00:07.07,3406.0,5.0,10.0,0.92,14.871,91.0,42.0
00:07.21,3500.0,5.0,11.0,0.92,14.615,91.0,43.0
00:07.34,3594.0,5.0,11.0,0.9,14.871,91.0,45.0
00:07.48,3656.0,5.0,12.0,0.9,15.384,91.0,47.0
00:07.63,3750.0,4.0,11.0,0.9,15.64,91.0,49.0
00:07.75,3875.0,4.0,11.0,0.9,15.897,91.0,51.0
00:07.90,3938.0,4.0,11.0,0.9,16.153,91.0,53.0
00:08.05,4031.0,4.0,11.0,0.9,16.41,91.0,55.0
00:08.18,4125.0,4.0,12.0,0.9,15.897,91.0,55.0
00:08.31,4219.0,3.0,13.0,0.9,16.153,91.0,57.0
00:08.43,4250.0,3.0,13.0,0.9,16.41,91.0,58.0
00:08.55,4375.0,3.0,12.0,0.9,16.666,91.0,61.0
00:08.67,4406.0,3.0,12.0,0.9,16.922,91.0,62.0
00:08.77,4500.0,3.0,12.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,64.0
00:08.89,4563.0,2.0,12.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,65.0
00:08.97,4594.0,2.0,12.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,66.0
00:09.07,4750.0,2.0,12.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,68.0
00:09.18,4750.0,2.0,13.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,68.0
00:09.28,4844.0,2.0,13.0,0.9,16.922,91.0,68.0
00:09.39,4875.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,16.922,91.0,69.0
00:09.52,4969.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,71.0
00:09.64,5031.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,72.0
00:09.77,5125.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,73.0
00:09.89,5219.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,76.0
00:09.98,5219.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,76.0
00:10.11,5281.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,77.0
00:10.22,5344.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,79.0
00:10.31,5438.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,90.0,79.0
00:10.39,5500.0,1.0,14.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,81.0
00:10.48,5500.0,1.0,12.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,81.0
00:10.57,5594.0,0.0,13.0,0.9,17.948,91.0,84.0
00:10.67,5625.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,83.0
00:10.77,5719.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,84.0
00:10.86,5813.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,86.0
00:10.96,5875.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,87.0
00:11.05,5906.0,0.0,16.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,87.0
00:11.14,5969.0,0.0,16.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,88.0
00:11.23,5969.0,0.0,16.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,88.0
00:11.34,6063.0,0.0,16.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,88.0
00:11.43,6063.0,0.0,16.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,88.0
00:11.52,6156.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,91.0
00:11.61,6188.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,91.0
00:11.73,6219.0,1.0,15.0,0.9,17.692,91.0,92.0
00:11.82,6313.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,92.0
00:11.93,6406.0,0.0,15.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,93.0
00:12.02,6500.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,94.0
00:12.13,6500.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,94.0
00:12.22,6438.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.435,91.0,94.0
00:12.32,6531.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,93.0
00:12.42,6625.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.179,91.0,95.0
00:12.52,6656.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,17.179,90.0,95.0
00:12.61,6719.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,16.922,90.0,95.0
00:12.73,6750.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,16.922,91.0,95.0
00:12.84,6781.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,16.922,91.0,96.0
00:12.93,6844.0,0.0,14.0,0.9,16.666,91.0,95.0
00:13.02,6813.0,0.0,13.0,0.9,16.666,91.0,95.0
00:13.13,6875.0,0.0,13.0,0.9,16.666,91.0,95.0
00:13.22,6969.0,0.0,13.0,0.9,16.41,90.0,95.0

[DSM614]

isnt it the higher the RPM the motor actually smooth's out because the way the 4g63 is balanced??

hmmmm... thats weird though...

[biglipps66]

at 28xx RPMs your timing is falling on its face.

What are your EGTs running throughout the whole pull.

3344.0 rpm ,6.0 knock ,9.0 degrees = bad

If your confident tune for a few counts of knock and 18+ degrees timing if you can manage.

If not.. Tune for 18degrees timing throughout the pull if you can. Your EGTs will help you get close.. but tuning for timing is your best bet.

[WikdTSi]

00:05.96,2844.0,3.0,17.0,0.88,10.0,91.0,24.0

I THINK the .88 02 might have something to do for that.

I've gone +4 across now and its looking better

This might take a while.
:huh

[WikdTSi]

Motor rebuilt 40k Ago.

.20 over OEM 8.51 Pistons
Ported/Polished Head w/ SS Valves
Hogged out 2G Manifold
"big" 16 on the stock 6cm Turbine housing both ported to hell.
VP 2.5" 02 Housing w/ DUMP
3" Turbo Back
2G MAS on 2G Stock snorkel
550cc RC's
Walbro 255lph Pump
CAS AFPR
Supra SMIC
2.5" UICP
2.5" Dejon LICP

Thats all the pertinent info i can think of right now.

[biglipps66]

running how much boost.. and what gear pulls

[WikdTSi]

DOH 15-16PSI
that was from 1500sh - redline

[biglipps66]

What ggeeearr :)

15-16!?!?!?! You need to up that some more yet and THEN tune.

Whitlow can run 20psi on the same setup and get some amazing timing.

You should turn it up to 18 and see where it goes. Do a couple pulls and then think about the settings, and then add or remove gas.

edit: just keep an eye on EGTs and knock thats all :thumb

[WikdTSi]

doh again 3rd gear

[biglipps66]

Not bad... do a full 4th gear pull and look.. 4th gear is yummy for tuning.

But up the boost.. and watch EGTs and knock.. and then do some tuning. With that setup you should at least be able to run 17-19psi on pump and be safe

[ucsigep]

tuning for track or for highway? If you are looking for track, tune 3rd. Highway pulls, tune 4th.

[Mike C]

That log isn't that bad. First off your timing should be that low in that 3500 RPM range. It gradually decends as your turbo is spooling up and drops to about 9 which is normal. When it gets to full boost it should start climbing which it is doing until about 6000 where it levels off. My guess is that you're are getting timing at the end pulled because of the high duty cycles. You can have no knock and still get timing pulled. I'm not sure why your duty cycles are so high though with RC550s and a 16g at only 16PSI. You might just be flowing alot of air than most 16g setups with that ported out 1g head :thumb You have an AFPR. Is it definately set at the right base fuel pressure? Boy if only I had a 1g and could see all that stuff :cuss

[Mike C]

It also looks like you need to adjust your throttle cable since your TPS value through that whole pull was only 90%

[WikdTSi]

Base FP set @ 43PSI

Thanks for the help guys.
:thumb

:eek DAMN I just saw that myself 95% DC WTF!
Well hell

Are these things even gonna support me @ 20psi ?????

OR maybe my afpr isn't raising the FP properly ?

GRRR :cuss :cuss

[Mike C]

Is your fuel pressure gauge electric and in the cockpit? If it is, have someone watch it while you boost it and see if it goes up on a 1:1 ratio with the boost. A 1gs base FP should be 36 so you've got it up a little high which should be helping your duty cycles. It sounds like bigger injectors are in order unfortunately. I would actually back the boost down a little more and see if it makes the duty cycle go down a bit as a test. If you're gonna turn up the boost more than 16, then just continue to monitor the timing. If it keeps dropping worse, then there will be no advantage to turning up the boost. Less timing=less HP no matter how much more you crank up the boost.

[WikdTSi]

Unforunately my guage is mounted in the engine bay

This SUCKS

Why does my car have to be ghey on me and use more fuel than any other 16G car :finger

[Mike C]

Unforunately my guage is mounted in the engine bay

This SUCKS

Why does my car have to be ghey on me and use more fuel than any other 16G car :finger

Its not completely uncommon. I've read other people running out of 550s with the big16g. I was able to run 18 PSI on pump gas but you are probably flowing more air than me or the average 2g. You can crank the fuel pressure up to about 50 and probably get some timing back. Just go back and recalibrate your low throttle settings to dial in your fuel trims or your gas mileage will suffer a little.

[WikdTSi]

Could it be that the AFPR is not matching 1:1 ?

Cause if it isn't even bigger injectors are gonna get hosed.

So I have to decide what to do from here.

Invest in a In-Cockpit FP guage, or swap in bigger injectors.

Guage is cheaper..

:( :( :finger :finger :cuss :cuss :cuss :cuss

I'm also gonna log her on a day when its not 100% humidity.

:down

[Mike C]

Cockpit electric FP are expensive. The autometer one I have was about $175 and I don't think there are too many cheaper alternatives. I would say the chances of it being bad are slim.

[ucsigep]

What should a 2g BFP be? I checked mine this morning, it's at about 38 psi or so. At least according to the POS B&M FP gauge on top of my fuel filter.

[Mike C]

Normal setting is 43 PSI without vacuum.