Questions for the turbo'ed 420A guys

[shawns_99_rs]

I know Chad did this.

What are the costs involved in having fowler engines build your short block? I am going to park my car for good after the summer and I want to start a bank account or somethign to save some flow. I am looking to go to a stage 3 or 4 set up.

I know there are kits everywhere but it seems that someone buys the kit bolts it on and two weeks later they re still upgrading parts and tunning. Why is that? Are the kits sold with half assed parts? Excuse my ignorance but I just want to get a feel for where I am at.

J.C. I know you built your own kit, are there alot of parts to aquire? If I am doing this over time is that the way to go? Please keep in mind that I want to build it to be quick and reliable (sort of). I don't car if I break speed records I jsut want some power and not be rebuilding this thing every two weeks.

Any info would be great all, please no flaming this is a serious question.

Thanks in advance.

[jplong]

http://www.columbusdsm.com/resources/knowledge_base/kb_00010_2GNT_turbocharging.htm

$3K

[JayC]

JP is on it. That should tell you all you need to know. All I can say is, If you want to turbocharge your non-turbo, get ready to spend alot of money. I alone spent around $1200 for my turbo kit. My engine blew up after only 2 days of boosting. You can get a rebuild kit for a little over $1000 from Howell. Then you must look at the other random parts and labor. I keep adding and upgrading parts every few months. The car is not designed for a turbo so you must know what you are doing if you want the car to last. Do you homework. The guys with the most knowlage are over at www.2gnt.com.

[shawns_99_rs]

Thanks guys. Iam trying to learn all I can before hand.

[MrBlunt]

aight heres the low down..the engine is not made to handle boost..its an economy based engine w/ a little torque geared more gas milage than 12 sec et's...so if you want to go turbo you'll need pistons, rods, all the gaskets, bearings, new water pump, tensioner, headgasket and timing belt...your looking at say 12-13 hundred there..depends on how you want to do things, if you want to have the engine overbored, the rotating assembly balanced and the head decked your looking at 400ish in machinist costs...now your little stock clutch wont hold, a stage 4 worthy clutch is going to run you 7-8 hundred for a good one..clutchmasters stg. 4 is a tough clutch, should last for a while depending on how gung ho you go w/ the boost...now we have a map sensor you need something to bypass the pressure the ecu sees..we all have the Missing Link check valve, ecu is blind to the boost..65 bucks...now you need the turbo kit...depending on your style and taste as far as the turbo goes i recommend the star kit..other places carry it now so you wont have to go w/ the same company i got it through..although i can get a discount through him..for stage 2 w/ front mount your looking at 2800-3000 ish all said and done, depends on the upgrades you go w/ ...now yoiu have an ass ton of air but puny 240cc inj's ...this wont do...for a stage 3-4 fuel setup you need something that is very adjustable...me and jay have an 8 inj setup which throws 550 cc's worth of fuel into the mix, nice setup, remains stock fuel trims and driveability..gotta like that..i love it...for everything your looking at say 800ish..now if youi want to boost higher than 15 psi you'll need some timing retard b/c we dont have the luxury of an ecu that will do it for us...to get timing and fuel all in one package you'll need something piggy back wise, i would highly recommend the greddy emanage..does both, easy to use and w/ the bad ass new boost controller you've got a prettty tight setup...that will run you a grand w/ no inj's or fuel fittings or fuel rail...but you could just slap in bigger inj's w/ the emanage and call it a day...you will need timing retard, yoiu can do something like the Dis 2 programmable w/ the tach adapter and the map sensor your looking at 600, or you could go the crane route and your looking at pretty much the same...add 200ish for belts, plugs, filters, oil and assembly lube/gasket maker stuff ..all the little stuff...that around 6-7 k for everything...you have a pretty fast ass car for that..or you could not build the engine...run around 7 nicely tuned psi and call it a day..most guys blow the engine in the nt b/c its just not made to handle it so i'd start saving if you go the just basic turbo route...then if you add labor on top of that your looking at probably a grand unless you do it yourself...for that price you could probably get a used gst or gsx that will need have the mods to be as fast b/c of an engine that can handle 400 crank hp..if i missed anything correct me but it is an expensive route to go no less ...it pays for itself a hundred times over when you wax some ace onthe street though

[BlackEclipse]

Gee....you make it sound like it is expensive or something, Chad.

[JayC]

just ask what we owe on credit cards.

[MrBlunt]

amen to that

[ucsigep]

hell, 420a guys aren't the only ones with credit card bills. I'm starting to rack 'em up as we speak... But it is true, they probably won't reach your levels, but it'll be close.

[Extreme GS]

Ditto what the guys have posted. If you TRULY have your heart set on turbocharging your N/T, then definitely begin by building up your internals and related parts. It is not a cliche'--turbocharging an N/A car is truly a road less traveled. At times, you'll be really frustrated. It will be costly. It will be time consuming.

However, in the end--after a lot of $$$$$$$--it could be very gratifying. Nonetheless, you're a pioneer. You have to be very patient, take criticisms (positives and negatives), and always know what to expect out of your car. I don't mean to sound this way, but you WILL go through a roller coaster ride. If you still have your heart set, then strap on your seat belt and enjoy the ride :thumb

[biglipps66]

just ask what we owe on credit cards.


Yup. But I bow down to his car! Turbo 420As are the shit.

All worth it.

[shawns_99_rs]

Thanks for the info guys. I wont have the money anytime soon but at least I know how to go about it. I appreciate the advice.

[gsxtacy01]

www.rpmextreme.com you'll find really nice prices there for the 420a and the 4g63 blocks and heads built

[e-eclipse]

now ya'll are sayin that u have to do all this just to get the turbo or just for the sizes hes going....i thought that if u replaced the pistons and all that in that area u'd be fine with running about 7-8 maybe 9 psi....i have the whole piston set up in the car already and bored over...so would this hold up with a stage 2 or do i need to build it all up like he would...sorry to kinda still the thread...thanks

ERIK B

[midwest97gst]

I think people overlook the potential of the 420a. You figure if you like boost, even if you have a 4g63 you will end up building a motor, replacing a turbo, doing an exhaust etc... why not start with a car that costs half as much?

In addition, it isn't to hard to find an srt4 motor or a pt cruiser turbo motor for less than a turbo kit and stuff would cost (EBAY) and you would be able to run decent boost levels... plus you would have 2.4L... its not as easy as a honda swap, but easier then a turbo swap... (and yes i know the heads are diferent etc)

The nice part about 420as is that they're cheap enough you could buy one and build it and ignore all the down time associated with 4g63s...

I once knew a guy who built honda motors... he always told people to skip b motors and stuff like that and built d and f series motors (The crappy ones)... they're cheap and when you blow them up... they don't cost and arm and leg to replace... i think the same concept applies...

[93TalonES]

IMHO a turboed 420a motor is a timebomb on wheels. but then again some ppl like time bombs.

[midwest97gst]

Any car driven or modded like an idiot is a timebomb... any motor pushed passed what is was designed to do, is a timebomb, technically the internal combustion engine is quite literally founded on the idea of a timed, controlled explosion... welcome to the world of performance... please take a seat...

[93TalonES]

Originally posted by midwest97gst
Any car driven or modded like an idiot is a timebomb... any motor pushed passed what is was designed to do, is a timebomb, technically the internal combustion engine is quite literally founded on the idea of a timed, controlled explosion... welcome to the world of performance... please take a seat...


yea your right but a car turboed thats not sussposed to be is just asking for trouble. How do I know this? well I turboed my Talon ES ran 6psi of boost and BOOOOOOM it went up in smoke.

[midwest97gst]

I ran a home made turbo kit consisting of a t25, a second hand front mount, a set of stock 4g63det injectors, along with a good tune on a 420A with good head gasket and a valve job for 3 years with no problems... it does work...

modifying your car from stock in general is asking for it... turbo or not...

what kind of kit did you run? If you tuned it or ran the right kind of fuel management, there would have been no boom...

Idiots with boost=boom....

[93TalonES]

14b turbo, all vacuum lines eliminated, stock HG, 450cc injectors, stock N/T pistons, N/T fuel pump.

The N/T fuel pump is where i screwed up i took that motor out and put in a 4g63 turbo and got a datalogger and I'm running out of fuel around 4k.

[midwest97gst]

What motor did you have initally? It wasn't a 420A if you have a 1g...

[93TalonES]

it was a 4g63 N/T

[midwest97gst]

Then you don't know from expereince that if you run 6 pounds on a 420A it will go boom... you know that on a 4g63de that when you run 6 pounds with no fuel pump, it goes boom... You're talking two diferent motors...

I have had both 4g63DET powered cars and 420A powered cars... i think i would rather run a 420A over a 4g63 anytime... but its personal preference...

How did you eliminate all the vacuum lines?