Where's the fun?

[Extreme GS]

Recently, on this forum and other national forums, I've noticed increased competition and flaming. The "attitude" or "tone" in posts within this forum (maybe including myself), in particular, has gotten quite negative. There seems to be increased competition (friendly competition is always good though.) Sometimes even very minor or simple posts or statements about various subjects are scrutinized, contested, or flamed, and blown out of proportion. I'm not quite sure what has taken place, but it's becoming to be an uncomfortable place to "hang out."

Please don't get me wrong; I'm in no way implying any person or group is negative. I am referring to the overall "feel" someone experiences when he/she makes a post to ask questions, to ask for advice, or just responding to a post. There seems to be more negative competition, statements, or challenges. I think it's quite OK for anyone to express their opinion(s) about certain topics, but posts and replies have become "all business"--too serious all the time. Now, I'm not saying the forum should be used to communicate every little things.

I just wonder if anyone else has noticed this, too, or is it just me (probably just me :D ) Again, I'm just wondering. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. When you guys/gals get to be my age, or Mike Black's, you wonder about every little thing ;)

[IWANTSOMEBOOST]

allthough im am just a little newb...i have noticed it...many of the topics get turned one sided and stray far from the origanl need of the post...or general topic...

[Caine]

" If you don't have something nice to say, then shut the f#$% up!" Bambi

[Extreme GS]

" If you don't have something nice to say, then shut the f#$% up!" Bambi

Exactly.

[VR4OOOM]

Ill throw in my 2 cents :D

From a competitive end of things, its what this crazy little car hobby is all about for a lot of people (myself included). Guys that played sports in highschool and college and have been competitive since day one in whatever they do (you should see my brother and i play ping-pong :eek ) its just one more thing. Most of us cant easily go round up 10 guys to play ball or get a softball game together on a saturday or play football or hockey or whatever like we used to. Racing cars and going fast is one thing that getting older and slower doesnt have as much effect on. I can go out and beat some 19-yr old kid in my car that would probably kill me in any athletic contest now but its no less competitive--he wants to win and i want to win. Pretty simple IMO.

From that you have people that HATE to lose, you have people that wont even try because they dont want to lose, you have people that get all pissed when they do lose and make a million excuses and so on. Its no different than any other competitive sport or competitive anything.

Its pretty rare to have some kid run a 1/2 second faster 40 time than anyone in the state and than never run track or run competitively, just like its pretty rare for some guy to mod the hell out of his little civic hatch in his garage and have it run 10s or 11s and then never race it at a track or never get involved with anyone else that does--he just drives it on a sunny day cuz he built it for him wtf

Just like when you were little, when you find something that youre better at than the other kids you keep playing and keep winning and keep feeling good about yourself. Losing sucks. Losing was just motivation to play even harder.

The implyed "animosity" that ends up showing up online a lot of times is just foreplay :p I raced people ALL THE TIME that i was 100% friends with just for fun. Adams (99TA) fast WS6 i ran multiple multiple times in the laser just for the hell of it. Just for something to do. Did i care if i won or lost? OF COURSE. Did we ever end up in flamewars about it online--NEVER. Other peoples cars that i dont know or dont even know whats done to them you need some other kind of motivation. So then it eiher falls back to money or some sort of "getting even" thing that lets you somehow rationalize racing/playing someone you otherwise wouldnt even consider.

Take Ken on here for example. I have no idea whats done to its car or what it has ran or what it could run and i honestly could care less. Ive met him once and he seemed nice enough in person. Why do i want to race him then? Basically because everytime i post anything regarding racing he has to come up with some sort of smart-ass comment implying that im all talk and basically just daring me to call him on it. Do i honestly care if i beat his talon (i think)? Yes and no. I care about beating HIM but i could care less about beating his car. But the competitve side of me cant stand the fact that someone wants to throw little jabs from the sidelines when they know they are just trying to provoke things. Drives me crazy. I could care less if he drove an elantra. Its just like when the kid in the cavalier rolls up beside you revving and trying to get you to race on the street. You know youre going to win. He knows youre going to win. He just wants to see you take off and see how fast your car is. Same thing.

I personally dont think it comes off as negative at all. Its just guys BSing about cars and im pretty sure thats something thats been going on LONGGG before the intraweb ;)

EDIT: Mike Black feel free to lock and delete parts of this as you feel needed as im sure a sentence or two might have offended SOMEONE :rolleyes

[SmokinEAGLE]

i like the last line the best.

[Iwishiwascool]

Take Ken on here for example. I have no idea whats done to its car or what it has ran or what it could run and i honestly could care less. Ive met him once and he seemed nice enough in person. Why do i want to race him then? Basically because everytime i post anything regarding racing he has to come up with some sort of smart-ass comment implying that im all talk and basically just daring me to call him on it. Do i honestly care if i beat his talon (i think)? Yes and no. I care about beating HIM but i could care less about beating his car. But the competitve side of me cant stand the fact that someone wants to throw little jabs from the sidelines when they know they are just trying to provoke things. Drives me crazy. I could care less if he drove an elantra. Its just like when the kid in the cavalier rolls up beside you revving and trying to get you to race on the street. You know youre going to win. He knows youre going to win. He just wants to see you take off and see how fast your car is. Same thing.

I feel special. Im glad I could inspire such passion within you. I had to mark our lil event on the calendar so I wouldnt forget. Something tells me you didnt have to. :thumb

In regards to the topic at hand...
So the pendulum swings. 6 months ago we had a board that had nothing to do with cars and everything to do with idle chit chat and drama. Now it is, at least, slightly more automotive related and with this, testosterone flows and egos sail. The interweb forum reader has a tendency to view messages through a aggression augmenting filter. Messages that often had no malice behind them. The reader takes jests personally, sees is E-rep threatened, and lashes out. And so the flame war begins.

Ones opinion of the community itself is purely perception. Perception is purely subjective. Subjectivism, by definition, can be skewed by any number of factors. When my car was broken I thought this place was a hell hole. When I find info or answers to questions (that I should already know) its the best.place.eva.

As long as there are keyboards to hide behind and fragile egos, there will always be E-gression. As long as we enjoy a hobby where our success is measured by the cars of others there will always be a certain level of underlying tension among those who take it seriously. And even more from those who take it too seriously. ;)

[1lowDSM]

I will agree with Kon this board has changed with the attutide.. i feel bad for some of the new ppl that get flammed... over simple questions that we all had to ask at one time or another

[VR4OOOM]

I feel special. Im glad I could inspire such passion within you. I had to mark our lil event on the calendar so I wouldnt forget. Something tells me you didnt have to. :thumb

Oh i wouldnt miss it for the world :) Its not everyday you get a chance to run a modded tsi (since my brother is still away in Kuwait anyway) so its gonna be quite eventful. I'll bring a 3rd and 4th along to make things atleast somewhat interesting though ;)

:beer

[MrBlunt]

I will agree with Kon this board has changed with the attutide.. i feel bad for some of the new ppl that get flammed... over simple questions that we all had to ask at one time or another

And those questions have been answered 1000x before on this forum and others. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to learn and to want to mod your car. Doing no research into the situation and expecting everyone to do the work for you is just opening yourself up. Do me this little favor, go onto nabrs public forum or even dsmtalk, tell them you have a 2g and you want to put a 20g/16g whateva on the car and you need to know what else you'll need to make it work. If your post isn't locked within 24 hours or doesn't have at least 10-20 flame replys i'll buy you a set of racing seats. Its amazing how far i've come since my involvement with this club. Thats come from research, tinkering,asking questions and from some misfortune. I still learn something new almost everyday.

This is attitude thing is something that happens every summer. Its nice outside, people go parking lot pimping every weekend and races happen. Then it mellows out during the winter. People do get to touchy on the web because its hard sometimes to figure out if the author is busting your balls or is really being a tool. I have to much of an f it attitude to get all worked up.

[Caine]

Agree'd, yeah do re-search, I find it easier and you dont get flamed. Much more fun to yell at yourself.

[TRBOCHK]

I agree with all sides. I recently put my car for sale (if I got a good offer) just because I am sick of all the bullshit that goes along with having the car and being apart of this group. The guys.. are awesome... but the guys on the forum... sometimes are not. People aren't willing to help others out and just feel the need to bash eachothers cars. Everyone just needs to grow up and get a life. DSM's arent everything. :D

[ucsigep]

I feel special. Im glad I could inspire such passion within you. I had to mark our lil event on the calendar so I wouldnt forget. Something tells me you didnt have to. :thumb

Oh i wouldnt miss it for the world :) Its not everyday you get a chance to run a modded tsi (since my brother is still away in Kuwait anyway) so its gonna be quite eventful. I'll bring a 3rd and 4th along to make things atleast somewhat interesting though ;)

:beer


I want to play...

[VR4OOOM]

I want to play...

By all means :thumb

[MikeyboyTSi]

And those questions have been answered 1000x before on this forum and others. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to learn and to want to mod your car. Doing no research into the situation and expecting everyone to do the work for you is just opening yourself up. Do me this little favor, go onto nabrs public forum or even dsmtalk, tell them you have a 2g and you want to put a 20g/16g whateva on the car and you need to know what else you'll need to make it work. If your post isn't locked within 24 hours or doesn't have at least 10-20 flame replys i'll buy you a set of racing seats. Its amazing how far i've come since my involvement with this club. Thats come from research, tinkering,asking questions and from some misfortune. I still learn something new almost everyday.

Word. That's the problem nowadays...most young'ins are lazy and want spoon-fed info: a quick-fix that requires absolutely no effort, aside from typing out a grammatically awful, punctuation-less sentence or two. That's what pisses me off about most (you gotta find the right ones)forums anymore; it's nothing but repeated questions, HiGh ScHoOL mOoN lAnGuAge, and newbies looking for quick answers. Don't get me wrong, all of us were newbies at one point in time and had TONS of questions (and I certainly still do), but 99% of the time, the info is already out there if you actually look for it. It just seems like most people would rather not put the effort in themselves.

When I got my car(s) and started racing and modifying them, I was completely unaware of any automotive forums. The best I knew about was the Talon Digest (anyone remember that?) and that info came once a week, if that. So, I spent a lot of time researching on my own through the FSM, books, and mostly trial and error. Now, people want to skip that step and it drives me up the wall. I don't mind helping people out where I can, but when no effort is put forth on their part, I'm completely turned off from helping them out, and even if I know the answer (usually ;) ), I'm VERY hesitant to even give them clues as to where to look. Learning is an ACTIVE experience, not a PASSIVE one.

MH

[Mike C]

Once again, Smart Mike earns his name :) .

[EvolvedDSM]

Once again, Smart Mike earns his name :) .

+1

The good old Talon Digest ;) I think I only made a handful of messages on there, but read just about every single one :)

I now know Todd Day's frustration.

[ucsigep]

I probably read most of them. After a while I got tired of reading them. :) Then I got back in again later.

[Extreme GS]

Thanks for all the honest replies everyone. I appreciate all the honest answers. It's helped me to understand how the majority feels about the forum, modding and racing. Again, I just want to reiterate that I posted the thread because I wanted to understand, not to make an issue. I know most members on this board are passionate about their car and racing, but I didn't realize most of you are modern "warriors." :D

I'm using warriors, because in ancient China and Japan (I used to be a martial arts freak :D ) a martial artist would "challenge" someone who is a known "fighter" to prove he's a better fighter, or that he's "style" is better. It was basically a way to prove his "skill," to conquer his/her "territory," or just to pump up his ego (we all have some.) Some people practice a martial art to improve his/her health, others practice to defend himself/herself, and others practice to become the best fighter. Most of you guys are definitely modern "warriors!" And, I say that with the utmost respect for your conviction to your "art" -- modding and racing.

Now I understand.

[1Gto2GinGS-T]

to be honest, i started to read all the posts and got tired of reading long posts so i gave up and posted about it :beer :thumb

[Jarod]

That is dedication :thumb
So what do you do when you run into a problem while working on your car and cant figure out what it is???

[EvolvedDSM]

That is dedication :thumb
So what do you do when you run into a problem while working on your car and cant figure out what it is???

Probably what a lot of people do. Gives up and comes inside, sits down at the computer, types up a semi-cohesive question and waits for someone to answer it...

[Insane99Eclipse]

I'll be the first here to state i know jack shit about working on cars.... can i change the oil doesnt look hard but have never done it on my own always had a friend who knew whats up help me... brakes yeah i can probably do them... did them the last time with a little coaching from my girlfriends step-dad who use to work on DSM's out a Ricart.

As far as engine work i'm dumber then shit... but always willing to learn.... thats why i joined this group to learn... i have learned alot in the little time i have been on here... I dont ask any questions becuz more then likely it's been answered before and i dont want to get flamed for something you guys thinks easy to do when i dont have a clue. Do i feel like a part of this group? No not really... i'm still on the outside looking in...

Thats why i havent made it to the friday saturday night thrift shop.. i dont want to look like a moron.. plus hmm stock car with all your cars not... whos the tool ... me.... I'll try to make one of the tuesday meets soon once school is done on the 6th.... but i still get the same why bother i'll just get laughed at....

Newbs are newbs no matter what... i'll be one for a long time to come i guess....


Matt

EDIT: And this the younger crowd stuff.. i can speak for myself on this being a newb not all of us are teens... I'm 27 and a newb...

[Hua]

Thats why i havent made it to the friday saturday night thrift shop.. i dont want to look like a moron.. plus hmm stock car with all your cars not... who the tool ... me.... I'll try to make one of the tuesday meets soon once school is done on the 6th.... but i still get the same why bother i'll just get laughed at....

Newbs are newbs no matter what... i'll be one for a long time to come i guess....


Matt

You need to have a better outlook on things. If I don't know something about particular cars, I'll flat out say I don't know anything aboutt them. You'll get a lot more respect that way compared to if you tried to BS your way through a conversation.

[talon guy]

I'll be the first here to state i know jack shit about working on cars.... can i change the oil doesnt look hard but have never done it on my own always had a friend who knew whats up help me... brakes yeah i can probably do them... did them the last time with a little coaching from my girlfriends step-dad who use to work on DSM's out a Ricart.

As far as engine work i'm dumber then shit... but always willing to learn.... thats why i joined this group to learn... i have learned alot in the little time i have been on here... I dont ask any questions becuz more then likely it's been answered before and i dont want to get flamed for something you guys thinks easy to do when i dont have a clue. Do i feel like a part of this group? No not really... i'm still on the outside looking in...

Thats why i havent made it to the friday saturday night thrift shop.. i dont want to look like a moron.. plus hmm stock car with all your cars not... who the tool ... me.... I'll try to make one of the tuesday meets soon once school is done on the 6th.... but i still get the same why bother i'll just get laughed at....

Newbs are newbs no matter what... i'll be one for a long time to come i guess....


Matt
i was once in yur shoes. had the stock car, its wasnt much and i didnt think too highly of it when it would be sitting next to a modded dsm at a dsm meet or @ the thrift store or w/e....but...wut i realized, is that most of the people on here started out the same way i and many others have.. stock cars.
Who cares if yur car is stock. leave it that way and save yourself money :thumb but if u mod it, have fun moding it and enjoy the hobby and dont try to make the hobby your one and only life. Come to the meets, come to the thrift store, meet new people, learn about other cars and learn more about dsm's. I myself still consider me a noobie compared to some of the dsm god's on here..but i know, i know some stuff and i can always add my input to things and there is someone else out there that u can teach the stuff u learn onto. so dont be discouraged about yur car, enjoy your car, and have fun with it :beer

[EvolvedDSM]

If you make an effort, then you will be looked at in a much better perspective--irregardless of your knowledge or level of modification. As stated, we all start at the bottom. You'll enjoy it much more if you work your way up instead of waiting for someone to carry you.

[Jarod]

I didnt mean in any way to flame you.... My point was that you can find almost anything you need to if you search enough and dont just give up and wait for someone to answer.

[Insane99Eclipse]

Jarod didnt take it as a flame or anything anyone else has said... just stating an opinion....

[ucsigep]

Yeah, we all started the same place. You said that you don't ask questions because you don't want to get flamed if they've been answered before. The key is, look for the answers first. I usually do it like this...

1) search function at the top. A lot of questions are answered right here.
2) check the resources page (http://www.columbusdsm.com/resources/resources.htm, linked from the main page). There's quite a bit of good information there.
3) check the VFAQ (http://www.vfaq.com).
4) check NABR (http://www.teamnabr.com). This is one of the best places to find information.
5) check DSMTalk and DSMTuners. I rarely trust what I find there, that's why I check it last. Usually by this point I've found a lot of good information about what I'm looking for, so I can make a decision about trusting Talk or Tuners information.
6) Finally, I will post the question here. Sometimes it will be to clarify with people I know, or to get opinions. But about 99 times out of 100 I already have the answers I'm looking for.

*7) If I was not able to find out the information I was looking for, I post to NABR.

Now, I've never had to go that far, so that's why there's a * next to #7.


As for coming out to the Thrift Store, I wouldn't even worry about that one. We go mostly to hang out, look at other peoples cars, and talk. There's no need to worry about your car still being stock.

[nicodemus13]

Wow. Well, I am still very new to this place, but I have not felt unwelcome here at all. If I have a question, it may seen dumb..but it gets attention, and answered. I do not know a whole hell of a lot about these cars either. I wanted on when I was 16. I got the '97 when I was 18. I did not know anything about turbo, and which model was which. I knew the impact that a GSX and GST had on the insurance. I am learning though. I know a few people off here, and everybody has been quite helpfull to me.
I have seen a little mud-slinging here and there... and even toward me. But it is true, I was to lazy to research the info...and just wanted a quick answer. For everybody that had helped THANK YOU. We are all learning stuff everyday from one another. And for one reason or another we are all here on this site...mainly for the love of cars. Some people think of their cars in other ways than others. Some want all show, when others are like wtf Lets take the seats out and drop a huge ass turbo. Then there are the ones who want the engine to sound nice...the car to look nice, and the sound system to hit with green neons underneath. (that would be me). I don't care how fast the car goes.. as long as it has a bit of speed under it and looks good.
Anyways, this place is a great place for info.. lots of good people here.